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FAQ

Before you request support…

Before requesting support, please make sure you have read the relevant manuals for your items (these can be found on the product listing page, or on the technical documents page)

If you want to receive faster support from us, please read and fill out our support procedure form.

Support Procedure Form

Fill out this form before contacting us for support if the FAQ and Blog posts don’t answer your question.

Email it to support@pandaebikes.com

FFAQ (frequently frequently asked questions)

We turn all of our really common FAQ questions into blog posts with a full run-down. Please read the featured blog posts below before looking at the detailed FAQ underneath.

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Will it fit?
Advice on ensuring your kit will fit
Read More
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What is my wheel size?
Check your wheel size before you buy.
Read More
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Top speed
Top speed FAQ
Read More
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Will it be road legal?
The facts about eBike law
Read More
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How much range will I get?
Range depends on more than battery capacity...
Read more
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Do I need a torque arm?
Torque arms are always recommended
Read More
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Which battery should I get?
Demystifying battery options
Read More
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What are hall sensors
All our motors have hall sensors, but what are they?
Read More

Technical Support FAQ

FAQ on technical issues/queries. See general and pre-sales sections below for other more general FAQ answers.

I have plugged everything in but it's not working

Ok, so you’ve got your kit, plugged it in, but maybe it’s not running how you expected? Please take some time to to check the manual and make sure you have plugged everything in right. Then follow these simple steps to get your kit going (almost always it is a small oversight when assembling that causes a kit not to run first time).

  1. Check that the battery is turned on, and that there is a voltage coming out of it (use a multimeter)
  2. Plug in the Controller and screen. If it turns on then great, if not – are you sure you have the right screen and that it is compatible with the controller? (if you buy a complete kit from us it obviously will be).
  3. Check if the LCD screen says there are any controller errors and if so read the screen manual to find out what they mean.
  4. Connect the motor (make sure you push the cable in all the way) and try the 6kph walk mode (read the screen manual for how to do this if you have an LCD screen). The motor should turn slowly and steadily . If nothing happens then check the LCD settings and make sure all connections are firm.
  5. Then plug in the throttle and PAS and check that they work effectively. If they don’t cause the motor to turn then check the voltage coming back on the signal wire from the throttle / PAS to find out if the problem is the controller or just the accessory itself.

If you get stuck at any stage then message us to explain clearly which stage you got to and what the problem is.

Accessories

Pedal Assist Sensors (PAS)

Easy-fit PAS

Our easy-fit pedal assist sensors (PAS) are designed to go on the LHS of the bike. If you fit it on the right hand side you may find that it only works when you pedal backwards!

If the PAS only activates when pedalling backwards, try swapping round the magnet disc and/or putting on the other side of the bike.

Standard PAS

We can also provide standard metal ring pedal assist sensors, but these require you to remove and replace the pedals which can be quite fiddly and requires a special tool.

Square taper / cotter type crank

Our pedal assist sensors are designed to work with most bicycles, and are quite flexible in that the magnet disc can be fixed to most pedal cranks. However they are primarily designed for square taper cranks. Old style cotter cranks may have compatibility issues.

Wires

Both PAS types have 3 wires, brown = +ve 5 V input, black = 0V output, and the third wire (yellow) is the signal which ranges between 0V and 5V depending on how far you twist the throttle.

If you are using a different controller then you will need to work out what colours on the controller connections correspond to +ve, -ve and signal.

A common colouring is red = +ve, black = -ve and white/blue = signal.

Throttles

We have 2 types of throttle, “half twist” and “thumb twist”

Half Twist Throttles

These work like motorbike throttles, you slide them onto your handlebars and fix tight. Then you can twist the full throttle between 0 and 180 degrees (hence “half twist”) . They do take up a lot of space on the handlebars so not ideal if you have twisty grip gear shifters.

Thumb Twist Throttls

These take up less space than the half twist throttles. They are just a small plastic ring that fits over the handlebars with a lever you push with your thumb to activate.

Wires

Both throttle types have 3 wires, red = +ve 5 V input, black = 0V output, and the third wire (blue/white) is the signal which ranges between 0V and 5V depending on how far you twist the throttle.

LED Displays

We supply the 880 LED display from Kunteng, compatible with most Kunteng controllers.

Is it restricted?

Our normal LED screens do not limit motor speed. However we can provide ones (on request) that are configured to limit motor speed to 15mph.

With the LCD screen you can manually change the speed limit.

Is my LED 790 display compatible?

Please note, the 790 display which looks similar is not compatible with Kunteng controllers as it is from King Meter. The 790 and 880 are not cross-compatible (also the 790 has just 4 wires instead of 5 wires).

The LED display carries a signal that can limit the motor speed. By default our LED display are not limited but we can supply 15mph speed limited ones on request.

What are the 5 display wires for?

Please see the attached wiring diagram for the LED 880 display

Can I use a controller without the display?

The key function of the display is to activate the controller by connecting the red (power) and blue (TX) wires. You can replicate this by shorting the red and blue wires if you don’t want to use the display

LCD displays

If you are having issues with the LCD display please first check out the attached instructions below:

All LCD displays allow you to manually change the top speed.

MDRIVE Display

LCD1 (Panda PRO)

 

LCD03 (Panda SMART)

www.pandaebikes.com/documents/lcd03manual.pdf

Brake levers

The brake levers we supply work simply by switching between open circuit and short circuit. Open circuit means brakes are inactive, and when pulled, a short circuit is connected which instructs the motor to shut off.

This way, you don’t have to connect the brake levers, the controller will work with them unconnected by default.

If you are using them with another controller then please check whether it requires an “always on” signal because this could mean that the controller doesn’t work with them unplugged, and that it will only drive when you pull them.

 

Controllers & Motors

My wheel won't fit

Our motor wheels are designed for compatibility with most bikes,with 100mm dropout width on the front and 135mm dropout width on the back. The axle thickness is 10mm – if you have particularly narrow fork dropouts then you may need to file them slightly to get them to take the motor axle.

Alternatively you can use axle spacer washers that we can provide to provide a little extra clearance:

 

If there is interference between the motor disc nuts and the forks, please remove the motor disc nuts

Motor interference

Interference with motor disc nuts

 

If there is more interference between the motor casing and the bike forks then please use axle spacers sparingly to slightly expand the fork width. If you have to use more than 2 axle spacers on each side then please contact our support email for advice as this may be dangerous on some bike forks.

Motor interference with forks

Interference between forks and motor casing

 

This is what an axle spacer looks like – please request and we can provide them for your kit:

Motor wheel axle spacer

Motor wheel axle spacer

Hall Effect and No-Hall Controllers

There are two main types of brushless motor on the market. Those that use hall sensors to detect the motor position (call hall effect controllers) and those that don’t (called no-hall controllers).

Hall Effect Controllers

These have 8 wires coming out of the motor. Three thick ones (these are the motor phase wires) and 5 thin ones (these are the hall sensor wires).

Q: “Can I use a hall effect controller with a motor that doesn’t have hall sensors?” 

A: No – for a hall-effect controller to work, some  hall sensor wires must be connected.

No-Hall Controllers

No Hall controllers just have 3 thick wires coming out of the motor. These are the motor phase wires that the power goes down.

Q: “Can I use a no-hall controller on a motor with hall sensors?”

A: Yes, you can plug a no-hall controller into a motor with hall sensors (just leave the hall sensors unplugged) and it will work fine.

See the FAQ below about wire colourings.

Motor running backwards / not running?

If you are using one of our motors with someone else’s controller, or one of our controllers with someone else’s motor, then you may find the motor wire colour combinations aren’t quite the same (see FAQ below on motor wire colouring conventions).

If you find that the motor is making noise but not turning, or turning backwards, then please just swap around the motor wires until it starts to turn forwards.

If you have a hall sensor motor, then please always connect the hall sensor wires and motor wires in the same colour combinations.

For instance if you connect the motor phase wires like:

blue-green / green-yellow / yellow-blue

then also connect the hall sensor wires like

blue-green / green-yellow / yellow-blue

(always leave the red and black hall sensor wires connected as red-red, black-black)

Motor wire colouring conventions

The standard colours for three phase motor wires are blue, green, yellow.

Our motors and controllers follow the same colour combinations, so if you connect blue-blue, green-green, yellow-yellow then it will work fine.

However other manufactures don’t always have the same convention as us so you may find to get the motor to work you need to swap the wire connections around e.g. blue-green / green-yellow / yellow-blue

See previous FAQ for more details.

 

My controller isn't working

If you think your controller isn’t working, please follow these steps before getting in touch with us:

 

1) Check whether the display turns on

Hopefully you are using one of our compatible displays with the controller. If not that is probably why it’s not working and you should purchase one.

If the display turns on, then this is a good start and means that the controller probably is in working condition but that something else is wrong.

If the display isn’t turning on, then check that the battery is correctly connected (test the voltage at the controller input) and that the display wires are connected properly.

2) Check motor connections

A common problem is that the motor connections haven’t been pushed in fully. Please check that they are fully connected.

3) Test in the 6 km/h mode.

To see if the controller is activating correctly, activate the 6 km/h mode by holding the button for 5 seconds on the LED display or going to the relevant setting on the LCD display.

You should see the motor activate and turn. If not, check for voltages coming out of the motor phase wires.

Use these links to download the LCD display manuals:

LCD1:

www.pandaebikes.com/documents/lcd1manual.pdf

LCD3:

 

www.pandaebikes.com/documents/lcd03manual.pdf

4) Check acceleration signals

So far so good. If all that is working then the problem is with the activation signal to the controller coming from the throttle or the pedal assist sensor

If you are using one of our throttles or PAS then this should work OK, please check the wires are connected OK, turn the throttle or activate the PAS (the red light should blink) and hopefully you’ll get some joy. Please try both the throttle and PAS.

If that doesn’t work then you can request a replacement throttle/PAS from us.

If you are using a throttle/PAS from another supplier, then this is probably the issue. Check the wiring diagrams on our product pages and ensure that the wires are connected OK.

On the throttle, you should have red = +ve power, black = -ve power, and then the third wire is the signal (usually blue or white coloured)

so ensure you have connected red-red, black-black and blue/white-blue/white.

Similarly on the PAS, usually you have the same colour coding as for the throttle above, or:

brown = +ve, black = -ve and yellow = signal

Do I need an LED/LCD display?

You need a display to go with your controller. The LED display is basic and just shows battery level, PAS assistance level and has a button to go at 6 kph. The LCD has much more functionality (see FAQ to the left with manuals). The LED display is not speed limited but we can provide ones that are on request. The LCD display allows you to manually set the speed limit.

 

Can I use a controller without the display?

The key function of the LED or LCD display is to activate the controller by connecting the red (power) and blue (TX) wires. You can replicate this by shorting the red and blue wires if you don’t want to use the display.

However, you will then lose the other functionality the display provides, battery level, PAS level etc. so we recommend using a compatible display with every controller.

Brushed motors (2 wires)

Our controllers are not compatible with brushed motors (which have just two wires coming out of them).

Do I need to connect everything?

You must connect up the battery, motor lines, motor hall, display and either throttle or PAS. The kit will work with either throttle or PAS connected, or both. It is highly recommended you connect the brakes for safety reasons but the kit will function fine if you don’t.

Batteries

Full charge but there is no power?

If you have fully charged your battery, but are getting no power out to the motor, then either you have forgotten to turn the battery on, there is a loose connection somewhere, or there is a genuine fault:

1) check the battery is turned on

Some of our batteries come with on/off battery switches, and some are activated by turning a key. Make sure that you have actually turned on and activated the battery as this is a common reason for thinking that the battery is dead.

2) check the voltage at the immediate battery output

Start by checking the voltage immediately coming out of the battery (be careful and measure between the red/black outputs of the battery). If there is a strong voltage then the battery is fine. Continue to test the voltage at each stage along the wiring down to the controller. If you lose voltage, then there is a loose connection that you should investigate and fix or request new wiring from us.

If there is a strong voltage reaching the controller inputs, then there may be a fault with the controller. See the controller FAQ section.

3) if all else fails, contact us!

If there really is no or low voltage directly at the battery, then please escalate to us for more technical assistance.

Charging problems

When charging, both lights should be red. One light will go green to indicate when the battery is fully charged

If you are having issues when trying to charge your battery, e.g. the charging lights are doing funny things, or just not turning on. Or if it says it is already fully charged when you know it’s not, then please disconnect the charger and contact us straight away for support.

Charging advice

Please only use the charger supplied to charge your batteries bought from us. When charging both lights should be red, when full the charge light will go green. Please do not leave charging for too long once charged, and let us know if you notice any unusual light patterns when charging.

See our “battery care” section for more info on how to look after your battery.

Display always shows low battery?

The LED and LCD displays we sell estimate the battery charge state based on voltage, which drops as it runs out of charge. The relationship between charge and voltage is different for different battery types and so if you’re using a different style of battery you might get funny readings.

Our LED and LCD displays are designed for the most common type of battery – lithium ion.

For instance, a 36V lithium-ion battery starts at 42V when fully charged and drops to around 32V when discharged. So the display looks at the voltage and guesses how much charge is left.

Lithium-polymer (LiPo) and Lead Acid batteries are also common but they have different voltage discharge relationships and so you will get strange battery level readings if you use on of our displays with one of those battery types.

Battery level going up and down?

As mentioned in the previous FAQ, the display estimate battery charge from the voltage. If you draw lots of current from a battery in a short space of time it will hurt the voltage which will drop quite suddenly, if you then leave the battery a while and let it recover the voltage will go back up again, hence your display will show the charge going down and then up again.

Battery sparks

If your battery sparks when you connect to the controller, this is bad and could cause damage. Please ensure the battery is turned off (not active) when making the connection and then turn off after.

If you are continuing to have issues, contact us.

Using batteries with different voltage motors

You should avoid ever using your battery with a controller or motor that has a different voltage. Either you will get a very poor performance and over-strain the battery if you use it on a motor/controller with a higher voltage, or if you use it on a motor/controller with  a lower voltage you risk blowing up the controller or burning out the motor.

Conversion Kits: pre-sales FAQ

Will the wheel fit my bike?

Our kits come with standard sized eBike motors that are compatible with most bikes. Front wheel motors are designed for 100mm width dropouts on the front forks. Rear wheel motors have 135mm width which is the standard for rear dropouts.

If you have very narrow forks or an unusual frame style you may wish to measure up the space in comparison with the motor dimensions. See the bottom of the item page of the kit you are looking at for a motor diagram. You want to watch out that there is enough space so the motor casing doesn’t rub on the bike frame / forks.

Usually though, if you have at least 90 mm between the forks all the way up the gap between them then you will be able to fit the motor without spacers.

Please note, if you are buying the Xiongda double speed kit with disc brake, these have extra wide dropout widths (110mm and 145mm) so a bit of stretching and DIY is required to fit to your bike. We recommend getting the standard v-brake versions unless you are an expert.

Will the battery fit on my bike?

Our bottle battery goes within the bike frame and fit to the bottle mount screws Check the dimensions – generally you need at least 35cm of space longways but if you’re not sure check the battery dimensions and measure it up.

 

With our frog batery, check there is about 20cm space between your rear wheel and the seat.

 

Rear rack bateries fit on the back with a custom pannier rack that comes with it. If you r bike can fit a pannier rack then you can fit the battery.

Do I need a torque arm?

If you have a steel frame/forks then you don’t necessarily need a torque arm for a 250W kit, however we would still recommend it.

For 250W+ kits you should always use a torque arm. Check out our info page all about torque arms for more details: torque arms

Which torque arm?

Our universal torque arms will suit almost any front or rear wheel application. They come with a metal band (hose clamp) which tightens around your forks or frame to hold the torque arm in place.

If you have M5 eyelets on your forks or frame (they are the small threaded holes that are usually used for mudguards or pannier racks) then you can use our “eyelet style” torque arms that screw into these holes and are fixed in place that way.

The multi-angle torque arm versions of the above work the same way, but are designed so that you can easily adjust the angle of the axle head meaning they are more universally compatible.

Is it disc brake / v-brake compatible?

All of our single speed motor kits (all of our kits except the Xiongda double speed ones) are compatible with both disc and v-brakes. The motor casings have the 6 bolt fixture for you to fit on your disc and use disc brakes, and the rims are suitable for v-brakes.

The Xiongda motor kits come in 2 types, v-brake kits that have normal dropout widths (100mm front or 135mm rear) or disc-brake compatible kits that have extra wide dropouts (110mm and 145mm) please only get the disc brake ones if you are an expert and are comfortable fitting these extra wide motors.

Is it road legal?

All our 250W kits are road legal providing you request the speed limited LED display, or choose the LCD display and set the limit yourself to 15mph.

Our higher wattage kits are not road legal and should be used on private land because the legal limit is 250W. However you can limit the speed on these kits to 15mph if you want.

Is it easy to install?

All our kits are designed with the customer in mind, and are super easy to install. Check out our “How-To” section for videos showing you how to do it: How-To

If you are a real beginner with bikes and eBikes, we have a super easy kit designed to make the process as easy as possible. Check out our 350W integrated battery kit – just fit the wheel, screw on the integrated battery/controller to the bottle mount screws, connect up and go!

2500W Panda SMART kit ideal for beginners

How much range will I get?

The range you’ll get depends an awful lot on how you cycle and the type of bike you use, but as a general rule of thumb expect 20-30 miles range from any of our kits

The best way to answer the question in more detail, is to work out how much “run time” you’ll get with the kit. A 36V 250W kit will be using about 8A of current when running at full power. With an 8Ah battery you’ll get 1 hour of continuous power, or with a 10Ah battery you’ll get 1 hour 15 minutes. Power 250W is about equivalent to a grown man cycling at medium power, so will get you to 10-15mph easily with no pedalling. So just cruising on throttle you could expect to go about 10-15miles. If you go at half throttle and add some extra pedal power you can therefore pretty much expect to go 20-30 miles.

However – if you put the motor on a very inefficient bike, or you’re cycling up very steep hills, this all changes. But we can assure you that our motors and batteries are among the most efficient on the market so you won’t get any better performance. Please consider using a good efficient bicycle to fit the kit to so that you get optimal performance.

What is the top speed?

All our kits are built with an inherent motor top speed of around 32kph, at which point the motor can’t be spun any faster unless you increase the battery voltage.

For road legality, all our kits can be limited to 15mph. Either by requesting a limited LED screen to go with the controller (available on request) or through using an LCD screen which gives you the power to manually choose the top speed to be whatever you want.

Geared v.s. direct drive motors

All our kits have geared motors, which means that there is no drag when you cycle normally, and your bike will still work like normal when the power is off. If you get a direct drive motor then there will always be drag when you cycle and you are stuffed if your battery runs out.

The advantage of direct drive is you can use regenerative braking, but controllers that can do this are usually not very efficient and quite rare.

Geared motors are the way to go, be wary of cheaper kits on the market that look the same, but are actually cheaper direct drive motors that are less efficient and less pleasant to ride because of the drag.

Xiongda Kits V-brake v.s. Disc Brake

Our double speed Xiongda kits come in two types, V-brake compatible and Disc-Brake compatible.

Our V-brake compatible motors are a normal width and will fit into any normal bike frame easily (100mm front dropouts or 135mm rear dropouts). These “V-Brake” motors don’t have the required screws for fitting a disc brake and can only be used with V-Brakes.
The Disc brake compatible Xiongda motors are 10mm wider to allow space for the disc brake mounting screws. This means they are compatible with disc brakes, but note that expertise in ebike building is required to fit these as the bicycle frame or forks will need to be stretched slightly to allow for the extra 10mm. This can easily be achieved with the right expertise and tools, and axle spacers are used to keep the wheel fitted in safely.

Does it come with a tyre?

We don’t provide tyres with our kits, because you’ve hopefully already got one! Just swap the tyre over, and that way you have matching tyres, and the tyres you want, as opposed to a standard tyre provided by us which might not be the one you want.

Do your rear wheels come with gears?

Our rear wheel kits don’t come with gears or freewheels. You should use the one you already have on your bike (swap it over using a gear remover tool), that way you ensure that the gears/freewheel are the right ones for your chain / gear system. If we provided a pre-fitted gear or freewheel it might not be the size that you need….

What's the difference between 24V / 36V / 48V?

Higher voltage kits are normally a bit more powerful and give you more acceleration. However the batteries are more expensive because they contain more cells.

A 24V 250W and a 36V 250W kit will give roughly the same acceleration. However a 24V 10Ah battery will not give you as much range as a 36V 10Ah battery.

Brushed v.s. brushless motors

Brushed motors are very old technology, and have just two wires coming from the motor (+ve and negative). Inside there are metallic brushes that connect to the spinning motor and these cause inefficiencies and eventually wear out.

Our motors are the modern brushless type, making them quieter, more efficient and longer lasting!

Controllers: pre-sales FAQ

Do I need Hall or No Hall?

There are two main types of brushless motor on the market. Those that use hall sensors to detect the motor position (call hall effect controllers) and those that don’t (called no-hall controllers).

Hall Effect Controllers

These have 8 wires coming out of the motor. Three thick ones (these are the motor phase wires) and 5 thin ones (these are the hall sensor wires).

Q: “Can I use a hall effect controller with a motor that doesn’t have hall sensors?” 

A: No – for a hall-effect controller to work, some  hall sensor wires must be connected.

No-Hall Controllers

No Hall controllers just have 3 thick wires coming out of the motor. These are the motor phase wires that the power goes down.

Q: “Can I use a no-hall controller on a motor with hall sensors?”

A: Yes, you can plug a no-hall controller into a motor with hall sensors (just leave the hall sensors unplugged) and it will work fine.

Will it work with just throttle?

Our controllers work with just throttle, just PAS, or both. It will take a signal from whichever one you plug in. If you have both plugged in, then whichever one you are activating the most will drive the motor.

Can I use my controller with a lower voltage motor

Using a 36V controller with a 24V motor, or a 48V controller with a 36V motor is called over-volting. It will make your motor go faster and with more power, however it is likely to damage the motor if run like this for too long. You will also get very poor performance and efficiency as the motor is not designed to be operated like this

If you are wanting to get a higher top speed out of your motor, then instead of over-volting, you should just buy a motor that has been purpose built for the top speed you want. We can help source a custom built motor for you just get in touch: support@pandabikes.co.uk

 

See this link for more discussion on over-volting:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/motor-and-over-volting-question.12492/

Does it come with an output for lights?

Most of our controllers do not have an output for a headlight, however we do have a limited stock of headlight compatible controllers, please enquire.

Will it work with just PAS?

Our controllers work with just throttle, just PAS, or both. It will take a signal from whichever one you plug in. If you have both plugged in, then whichever one you are activating the most will drive the motor.

Can I use my controller with a higher voltage motor

This is called under-volting, and yes you can do it but you won’t get very good performance or speed and we don’t really know why you’d ever want to do this really.

Check out this link to the pedelecs forum for more discussion:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/motor-and-over-volting-question.12492/

Is it speed limited?

Our controllers are all unlimited by default, meaning they will spin the motor up to whatever is its maximum rpm (determined by the speed at which the motor back emf rises to be the same as the battery voltage).

Usually motors have a maximum rpm corresponding to roughly 30-32 kph.

If you want to limit the controller speed, you can request one of our limited LED displays which sends a 15mph speed limit signal to the controller.

Or you can use one of our LCD displays that allows you to manually configure the top speed.

Can I use without a display?

We recommend using our compatible LED or LCD displays to run our controllers. However if you really want to, you can just short the red and blue wires on the display connector (5 wires), and this will ensure the controller is always on.

Please note – this counts as a modification to the product and controllers modified in this way are outside of our returns policy.

Accessories: pre-sales FAQ

Throttle compatibility

Our throttles are of a standard design with three wires (positive, negative and signal). They are compatible with most ebike systems on the market including:

  • Eco stepper
  • Viking Ego Hopper
  • Cyclotricity
  • Ezee

LED Display compatibility

Our 880 LED displays from Kunteng are compatible with almost all Kunteng controllers. They are also compatible with the Viking EgoHopper and EcoStepper electric bikes.

Other controllers may not be compatible – however you can always buy one of our controllers which will work.

Hydraulic brake levers

Our brake levers are standard mechanical brake levers that are compatible with any wire operated braking system. Please note they are not compatible with hydraulic brake levers which are more sophisticated.

LCD display compatibility

Our LCD displays from Kunteng are compatible with almost all Kunteng controllers.

Other controllers may not be compatible – however you can always buy one of our controllers which will work.

TORQ arms

For questions about torque arms please visit our dedicated website:

TORQ-reaction.co.uk

PAS Compatibility

Our pedal assist sensors (PAS) have the standard 3-wire connections and are compatible with most controllers and eBikes on the market. Please see the technical FAQ above for more details on wiring or see information in the product page.

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